Obama Adviser Orszag: Stimulus Plan is 'Totally Impractical'

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aporitic, I think you make a good argument, even if I would place more faith in Orszag's contention that even on-the-shelf projects cannot be started in time to stimulate. Projects that have been halted for lack of funds could be restarted, but I'm not sure that that would be stimulative to the degree that people want.
What I think Orszag is getting at, however, are the practical limits on how much work can be initiated in such a short time-frame. There isn't a large pool of unemployed laborers standing around, ready to be put behind the controls of heavy equipment. This isn't 1932, where most people were rough and ready types who worked with their hands. The labor pool is not as elastic. And there's only so much heavy equipment available for these projects.
It would be like trying to feed an apple whole to a garter snake. Can't be done. And if you fed it to the snake a small piece at a time, it might take forever, providing little if any stimulus.
What probably makes more sense to Orszag is to cut up the apple into small pieces and feed it to a million different snakes; ie. spread it throughout the economy rather than concentrate it in one sector. I don't necessarily agree with the overall spending-as-stimulus concept, but in this Orszag makes sense.
Cut Taxes, Cut Spending, Restart The Economy

Dean of MN 11:30AM December 10, 2008

Understanding How Things Are and How They Work
That is a "Rookie" mistake Mr. Obama made. Being a Conservative Democrat (like the the ones from the 50's), I am happy Mr. Obama is learning quickly on what is real and not. That is why advisors, even the right wing conservative ones he is surronding himself with, to teach him quickly.
Ever heard of the Davis Bacon Scale?
Hows this for a plan.. Economic Stimulus Common Sense Plan.
1. Take all the unemployment benefits, with welfare benefits, any other government handout benefits and pool that money. Kick in some additional funding for good measure.
2. Use this money to pay people for actually doing some kind of work that has value for the dollar paid.. WOW, How stupid is that!!!
3. Pay the Davis Bacon Scale to the folks performing work by skill and experience level.
4. Hand off the funds for projects to the States and all the way to the Cities (with no dippin in the funds from Feds or State level, let it go to the Municipal level). This makes the project for local infrastructure immediate or very close to that.
NOW, you have immediate stimulus starting at an area level. You can target areas that need it most, or areas that are in need of repair or new infrastructure the most.. etc..
City level decisions can be made in a one night meeting from the city council or even area council, very quickly.
Then Obama has time to start the larger projects planning, engineering, scheduling and execution phases.
The one thing big government does not understand is that helping blue collar people starts at the neighborhood level, not across a state or region of the US..
Keep going to the right Mr. Obama, you are doing pretty good right now, and you still need a few more steps right to be completely right..

COOYON The Cajun Cook and Storyteller of LA 11:18AM December 10, 2008

Bob Keyser: How dare you inject a dose of reality!
Of course, what a lot of people simply want is to cash a check, and that can be facilitated almost immediately, projects or no projects. The idea that work will actually be done is a secondary consideration for many.
Cut Taxes, Cut Spending, Restart The Economy

Dean of MN 11:09AM December 10, 2008

yes, it does take time to ramp up infrastructure projects. And yes, many of the details of Obama's stimulus plan are iffy.
However, the rule-of-thumb analysis that is driving this particular vein of criticism is overlooking a critical point. Most (maybe all) of the states have infrastructure projects lined up and ready to go that they have had to scale back or put on hold because of recession-related falling revenues. Many cities are in the same boat.
I'm not talking about projects that haven't been developed beyond the identified needs stage; I'm talking about ready-to-build, where adding money to the project translates to more spending and jobs right away.
There are also projects out there that are already underway where the schedule of the project is tied to a particular reveue stream but where an infusion of money could be used to advance the project (i.e. the project's stimulative value could be shifted closer to now instead of spread out over time).
A fiscal stimulous plan that put money into these kind of projects first would actually stand a chance of having a positive effect now, when it is needed, and avoiding the delay problems mentioned above.

aporitic of UT 11:03AM December 10, 2008

I've worked on small residential site development projects (residential projects are almost always less regulated than their large commercial counterparts) with existing infrastructure save for access into the planned development. These projects alone, development of merely 100 acres, can take years in planning and approval. Even if states allow rapid approval processes -which is highly unlikely- additional concerns, namely citizen opposition and environmentalist's opposition would almost certainly drag out new construction infrastructure projects over several years and into the courts. It's unlikely the first projects get underway during the president's first term- a 'stimulus plan' set to kick in half-a-decade will surely not stem the tide of recession.

Bob Keyser- Key Designs LLC of MD 10:49AM December 10, 2008

The big public works programs of the past didn't have to deal with OSHA, enviromental impact studies and prevailing wage issues. If Mr. Obama tries to bypass any of these Democratic/Liberial backed positions he will be thrown into the grinder and it will become open season on him. The left will crew him up and spit him out.
He has to protect the tree huggers, the poor little workers, and above all the unions.
This all adds up to no change.

Keith of MO 10:16AM December 10, 2008

I think that this "stimulus" will be kicking in right about the time that we are seeing a FED-induced economic recovery.
Unfortunately, what we're doing right now is going to unleash huge inflationary pressures in 2-4 years.
Oil and food prices will explode once we get our phony recovery. The dollar's value will tumble dramatically after a few years of 1-2 trillion dollar deficits. Consumer discretionary spending will completely disappear as most Americans devote the VAST majority of their spending to energy and food costs.
I think that the second cycle of this economic reckoning is going to make today's "crisis" look like a minor blip.

stickety of MI 9:47AM December 10, 2008

I agree with Mr. Orszag; however, I would add one more factor as to why a big stimulus plan, along the lines presented by Mr. Obama, will not work. The additional factor is, obvious, and it comes in the form of the protests and lawsuits that will be initiated by environmentalists. The majority of environmentalists oppose construction of new roads and bridges, as they likewise do with all sorts of alternative energy sources (The reason is POTENTIAL, in the minds of some, harm to habitats, various species, river direction, etc.).
The court dockets are already loaded with suits brought by environmentalists. Thinking that environmentalists will allow immediate construction of roads, bridges, sewage lines, and the like, is to believe that this country can replace all fossil fuels with Al Gore- approved alternatives within five, or even ten, years.
If they succeed, we will see no improvement other than they may fill a few potholes. I don't like the few I come across in my city, but their existence will bother me a whole lot less than the Democrats spending hundreds of billions of dollars in taxpayer money on "failed governmental policy".
Stop the Insanity! Today.

D Dorner of LA 9:10AM December 10, 2008

I just have to chuckle at the notion that these projects will be even started in 5 years.
It's ironic to me that the party interested in protecting the earth-you know, the same party that stops windmill farms from being built using endless environmental impact studies-is now behind this massive construction project.
Think of it this way. In the last 5 years, the govt. has spent 508 BILLION in infrastructure improvements. How'd that work out in stimulating the economy, hmm?
Simply put, just like the coming stimulus checks, this is more candy bars being handed out to buy votes for Obama's re-election.
The acronym that the workers used for the WPA at the time was "We Piddle Around". Guess it'll still be true.
Ronald, you won't be digging any ditches-it'll all be done by union labor, trust me.

Jesse of PA 8:55AM December 10, 2008

I dont care if he spends 20 billion on putting some money into the pockets of the poor.Right now I will dig a ditch or clean the white house toliet while waiting for the plans to be put in place.A bird in hand is better than being bushed again.Oops thats right your republican not a Bushy.Yea right.

ronald r gagnon of CA 8:09AM December 10, 2008