How about this scenario: round after round of layoffs, even though you're working hard and doing everything that is asked of you, and even after the CEOs have just awarded themselves yet bigger pensions, pay, and perks you are laid off through no fault of your own. One day you find your self with a cardboard box being escorted out of the gate. This is after your Indian H1B replacement showed up the week before, and after you trained him/her. This happens, amazingly enough, 2 months before you were to vest into your pension or 401k.
Dave Smithof NE4:16PM November 08, 2012
The second sentence in the second paragraph of the previous comment should have read: "are not topped off." Small typo, nut big difference.
TCof MI9:02AM October 27, 2012
The truth about the Delphi pensions: The Salaried pension fund was between 75and 85% funded, well above the threshold for termination. The PBGC held liens on Delphi's foreign assets worth between $3 and $4 billion, enough to fully fund pensions. GM needed Delphi out of bankruptcy. The Treasry Department under pressure to get GM through bankruptcy quickly tells the PBGC to terminate the pension plan and drop the liens. PBGC does this, and through incompetence or on purpose they make bad calculations and say the fund is only 50% funded. The PBGC takes on the second biggest plan in history when it doesn't need to. The retiree's get 50% of what they earned from a plan that should have been fully funded.
The Treasury Department tells GM to make up the difference for the UAW workers. The salaried workers and membersof smaller unions are topped off. The Delphi Salaried Retirees Association files suit against Delphi to stop the termination of the plan. The PBGC files a suit against Delphi that takes precedent over the reirees suit. The retirees drop their suit. Days later the PBGC drops theirs and Delphi gets rid of its pension plans with help from the PBGC.
The retirees file a suit against the PBGC and the Tresury Department. A federal judge orders the PBGC and Treasury to begin providing documents. The PBGC manages to stall for 20 months before turning over a single document that wasn't already public. Treasury is still stalling 2 years later trying to get past the election before releasing a single document. The retirees spend over $2 million of their own money on legal fees.
I would have been better off with a 401k from when I started with GM in 1975 than I am with a pension. Need I say more?
TCof MI8:58AM October 27, 2012
Scenario-A hedge fund takes over a company and systematically strips it down to the studs and rafters, manuevering the books to make a grab for the pension money. It lobbys for softer laws and buys off oversight, making it all legal.
With the money gone- the problem gets passed on to the PBGC, which returns the bare minimum to some recipients. The rest are out in the cold.
PBGC is facing huge liabilities in the future, courtesy of this game plan.
Jimof OH1:38AM June 13, 2012
Pensions can be 'closed'.
IBM, a big local employer here for the last 30+ years, closed their 'defined benefits' plan to new hires years & years ago. New employees would get a 'defined contributions' (401k) plan. A few years ago they further announced that the plan would now be closed to further contributions & all future contributions would be 401k. This also applies the public retirements. I'm entitled to full retirement when my years of service plus age equals 80. I also have no limit on retirement pay %. I can actually receive over 100% if I want to work long enough! New hires have to get to 85 instead of 80 & are capped at 80%.
Philof AZ4:10PM November 15, 2010
it is all going down the remedy is a court of law not a court of logic, a suit is only as good as the depth of his pockets, if there is nothing there what lawyer will persue it? they bank on this , let's review steal someone's pension and you can defend your self in court steal anything else you go to jail america , america, america why not do away with pension and GET YOUR WHOLE PAYCHECK AFTER TAX AND listen to jim crammer invest your own money your way pay your own pension sucker
henryof MO9:12PM September 08, 2010
I notice social security is NOT on this list. In spite of all the lying and fear mongering by "financial experts and advisors", social security is secure for decades and would of cousre be even more secure, and generous, if incomes over $106,000 were not exempt from social security taxes.
upwingerof CA10:45PM September 05, 2010
I work 8 years for a mid west construction equipment manufacture that bought my division in 1999 I started in 2000. The parent companies people got defined pensions and our group didn't. Our pay check had the parent companies name on it and my W-2 had there name on it. All other benefits were the same. I took some class in business law and it seem similar to Adverse Selection. Can they do this
Ronof CA1:57PM September 01, 2010
If the ship goes down we all go with it. theres no sense in worrying about it now. "Hey buddy have you got a dime"
Harryof GA4:25PM August 26, 2010
I worked for a large insurance company for 35 years and I have to tell you that I am nervous about my defined benefit plan. Retires do spend money if they have it. The failed pensions will take millions of dollars out of the economy and many retirees will have to ask the government for help in meeting their expenses. We are on a slippery slope and I am waiting to fall over the edge with out a safety net.
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Dave Smith of NE 4:16PM November 08, 2012
TC of MI 9:02AM October 27, 2012
TC of MI 8:58AM October 27, 2012
Jim of OH 1:38AM June 13, 2012
Phil of AZ 4:10PM November 15, 2010
henry of MO 9:12PM September 08, 2010
upwinger of CA 10:45PM September 05, 2010
Ron of CA 1:57PM September 01, 2010
Harry of GA 4:25PM August 26, 2010
Mik Vrieze of IA 10:49AM August 26, 2010